Infidelity, and the Truth We Avoid Talking About

*New name is Sherley’s Show some older recorded videos you will hear Femme Parler Podcast as changes are still taking place*

Welcome back to Sherley’s Show, this is the space where we talk honestly about relationships, obstacles, and what it actually takes to rise strong through real life experiences.

Today’s episode was different.

Instead of sharing a personal story or answering a listener’s question, Kira and I sat down to talk about the Netflix documentary Ashley Madison Sex Lies and Scandal. I discovered this show toward the end of 2024, but what surprised me most was learning that the Ashley Madison website itself has been around since 2001.

That alone made me pause.

Also listent to: Living Without Limits: Embrace Life Fully

This was not some new concept born out of social media culture. This was intentional infidelity packaged as a business long before Instagram, TikTok, or dating apps were part of everyday life.

As we started watching, one thing became clear quickly. This was not just a documentary about a website. It was about people. It was about boredom, validation, secrecy, shame, and the ripple effects of choices made behind closed doors.

Both Kira and I come into this conversation from lived experience. We have both been perpetrators and victims of infidelity. That gives us a perspective that is not theoretical or judgment based. It is informed by regret, healing, and hard lessons.

One of the first things that stood out was how different Ashley Madison is from other situations people try to compare it to. This is not a dating app where someone might be lying about their relationship status. This is not an accidental temptation. This is a platform you sign up for with the specific intention to cheat.

That intention matters.

When you create an account, you are making a decision to emotionally or physically step outside your relationship. That is very different from stumbling into attraction or feeling curiosity. It is a conscious choice.

The documentary introduces us to several couples, each with a completely different experience.

Sam and Naya are a married Christian couple from Dallas, Texas. On the surface, they looked like a normal everyday family. Sam worked nights as a nurse. Naya stayed home with the kids. They were even well known on YouTube after a family video went viral years earlier.

Sam admitted he got bored.

Not neglected. Not abused. Not ignored. Bored.

And that boredom led him to sign up for Ashley Madison. From what was shown, his interactions on the site were mostly emotional connections. His physical infidelity happened elsewhere. Massage parlors, strip clubs, and inappropriate behavior with women outside the site, including coming onto Naya’s friends.

That part was especially painful.

Cheating does not just affect the couple. It affects friendships. It affects how safe your world feels. It changes the way you see people around you.

What made it harder to watch was the pattern of partial truth. The minimizing. The lies layered on top of lies. Kira pointed out something important during our conversation. It is not just cheating that breaks people. It is the deception afterward. The slow drip of truth that keeps reopening the wound.

By the end of the series, Sam and Naya are still together. They separated. They went to counseling. They worked through it. But you can visibly see that Naya is not the same woman she was before. She looks stronger, but also harder. Like someone who learned resilience the hard way.

Then we meet Stephanie and Rob, a married couple in an open relationship. They both use Ashley Madison, and they are fully aware of each other’s activity. There are rules. There is communication. There is consent.

This part of the documentary forces a necessary distinction. The core betrayal in infidelity is not sex. It is secrecy. It is deception. It is breaking an agreement without the other person’s knowledge.

Open relationships are not for everyone. They are not for me. But they highlight that consent changes the entire dynamic. Cheating happens in silence.

The most devastating story in the documentary is Christy and John.

They were married for 24 years and lived in New Orleans. John was a professor at a seminary and deeply involved in the church community. When the Ashley Madison data breach happened in 2015, his information was exposed.

He was called into his office and told he had to step down. He went home, entered the garage, and died by suicide from carbon monoxide poisoning. Christy found him.

That is the part people do not like to talk about.

Infidelity is often treated like gossip. Like drama. Like karma. But this is the real cost of shame. Careers lost. Reputations destroyed. Families shattered. And in some cases, lives ended.

Christy was the person I connected with the most. She was honest in a way that felt grounded. She admitted she had moments where she wanted to search or investigate, but she stopped herself. She was transparent. And I truly believe that if John had lived, she would have worked through it with him.

That story is a reminder that cheating does not just impact romantic relationships. It impacts mental health. Identity. Community. Faith. Everything.

The documentary also exposed how Ashley Madison falsely marketed itself as secure and trusted. User data was not protected. When the hackers, known as the Impact Team, released the information, they claimed their motive was moral. They wanted the site shut down.

It did not happen.

Instead, people paid the price.

What this conversation ultimately comes down to is this.

Relationships are not fairy tales.

They are not perfect. They are not smooth. They are not always exciting. There are seasons of boredom. There are seasons of exhaustion. There are times when your partner cannot fulfill every emotional need.

But that is not a justification to betray someone.

Marriage and long term relationships require intention. Communication. Honesty. Choosing your partner even when it feels mundane. Even when it feels hard. Even when temptation exists.

Temptation will always exist.

What matters is what you do with it.

We also talked about something important at the end of the episode. Sometimes relationships end. Sometimes separation is necessary. If someone is not a safe partner emotionally or physically, walking away is not failure. It is self preservation.

Infidelity can be a form of emotional abuse. And repeated betrayal without accountability is not something anyone is required to endure.

At its best, marriage and commitment are about choosing each other daily. Not just when it feels good. But when it feels heavy.

This episode was not meant to judge. It was meant to educate, reflect, and open conversation.

If you watched the documentary, I want to hear what stood out to you. What made you uncomfortable. What made you think differently.

And if this resonated with you, make sure you are subscribed to Sherley’s Show so you never miss the conversations we are willing to have out loud.

We will chat again next week.

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Sherley’s Show is learning and growing every single day. We aim to uplift all marginalized voices both on this podcast and in real life. Please note that we are always striving to change the problematic language that society has internalized in us. Thank you for your patience as we aim to strip certain phrases from our vocabulary.

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Transcript

Transcripts are the conversations from the podcast which may contain a few errors/typos.  It can be difficult to catch all errors, especially if two people are speaking at the same time.  Please enjoy the conversation and if you have any questions email us.

00:03

Welcome to Podcast where we are unpacking opinions and changing destinations. I am your host, Sherley Altidore, where each week we will chat about how to rise strong out of all types of obstacles that come with relationships. Through personal life experiences and discussions ranging from infidelity,  trust, forgiveness, sex, heartbreak, self-love, and so much more, I am passionate and obsessed to provide guidance to every woman to create a better life. Let’s dive in,  pull up a seat.

00:31

Make sure you’re cozy  and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn.  With me,  your virtual girlfriend.

00:42

All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode. And today, Kira and I have something different going on. What we’re going to be doing today is we’re going to be talking about a show on Netflix called Ashley Madison, Sex, Lies and Scandal. I found out about this show late 2024, but this website after watching it and doing my research has been around since 2001.

01:12

which is surprising to me because of course I didn’t know anything about it in 2001. How old was I?  I was just graduating high school. So of course this website wouldn’t be up my alley, but it’s been around for a long time.  So to get started today, Kier and I are going to be talking about this, especially based off of our  past experiences. We are both

01:39

perpetrators and victims when it comes to infidelity, we can definitely speak a good piece of education from our own experience. So we’re just sharing our thoughts about this website and we definitely want to hear your end of it. uh What do you think about this? Kira and I were having a brief conversation is how is this different from like the bunny ranch in Las Vegas  or  you know,

02:09

other websites, dating websites. And Kara made a good point to me where this is actually intentional. You’re signing up to intentionally cheat on your partner, which is slightly different from how dating websites work  or  even the bunny ranch in Las Vegas. And we all know what, what the bunny ranch is.  Um, if you don’t, there’ve been episodes they’ve done on TV about it. You could Google it and that’s

02:39

simply just for sex,  sexual gratification. But this is cheating and then what becomes of it. So anyway, we’re going to get started. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to start off just playing a small  snippet  of it from Netflix. And then I’m going to start my whole spiel with my notes and Karen and I are going to start talking about each episode. So we’re going to stop right there.

03:08

Cause this is a great segue into our discussion before I start talking about my notes. We all have,  and I’m not quoting everything verbatim. We all have unhappy marriages. You know, the perfect affair is not getting discovered. Okay. Even that right there is like diabolical because why  would you  even say  that?

03:32

But anyhow, let’s get some back history on the Ashley Madison website here. So what we have here, Ashley Madison first started in 2001. The person who founded the website was Darren Morgenstern. He started it in 2001. His brother actually came on board with him as a creative director. His brother’s name is Mark Morgenstern.

04:04

And originally when they found it, the same intent it is now is what it was originally. They had some infomercials at night, some, you know, the older generations, 40 and older probably would have seen it. Not even 40 and older, maybe 45 and older probably would have seen it because in 2001 I was 18.

04:28

Yeah, I was still in high school. So you have to be at least were saying either,  I mean, 16, 17, you could have been seeing these infomercials, but it was infomercials late at night. They were doing to promote the website. That’s how it was being promoted. Now what ended up happening was  Darren  left the company.  I didn’t, I’m not going to say he left the company because they didn’t talk too much about that on the Netflix episode, but eventually Neil Biderman.

04:58

became the CEO in 2004 because they  wanted to market the website a little bit more. So they had him come in as a CEO. A little background about Neil  is he’s also a lawyer. So he became the CEO of Ashley Madison and he’s also a lawyer. Now the name Ashley Madison has absolutely no serious significance at all.

05:26

They basically just picked two very popular names at the time, Ashley and Madison. And that’s how they created Ashley Madison. It’s no significance over any particular person. So Neil took over  and everything started going very well. This is all in episode one on the Netflix show. And when you start first start watching the Netflix show, you’re going to meet

05:55

Sam and Naya. I think it’s Naya. That’s how she pronounced her name.  And they are Christians  who live in Dallas, Texas. They got married when they were both Naya was 20, Sam was 24. Sam is a nurse.  And from what I’m gathering here, Naya was a stay at home mom. Sam was working nights. So the episode starts off with both of them. Everything was  normal, like a normal everyday couple.

06:24

And  Sam started to  get bored with his relationship. So he decided to sign up for this website.  think on the show,  he, I don’t, I don’t remember if he heard it from somebody, if he saw infomercial and that’s what sparked his interest, but either way he joined, he signed up, he created an account, he used all his real information. He did not use  fictitious information.

06:51

And I don’t know why, because I think he just didn’t think anything was going to come up  of this,  because you’ll find out later the big scandal that happened between Ashley Madison in 2015. So he creates an account. He does meet someone. He talks to them. It’s a lot of back and forth conversation, but correct me if I’m wrong, because in my notes, I didn’t put, I don’t think he met  up

07:20

with the first person, I think it was just all phone, text message conversations on the app. Yeah, it seemed like his actual physical infidelities were at the massage parlors, strip clubs, which were separate from the Ashley Madison was more of the emotional affairs. So the first thing I want to focus on  in our discussion today  is  why would someone

07:48

go out intentionally to  sign up for this website, create an account to emotionally build a connection with someone to possibly  meet up and even have sexual encounter. Now we’re talking about Sam and Naya in episode one. You also hear about  Stephanie and Rob who are actually married and they both  have accounts.

08:18

on Ashley Madison, but they are in a open relationship. So there is also a negative and a positive to this that we’re going to share. And the sad story is in episode two, you’ll start to hear about Christie and her husband, John, who the situation didn’t end nicely because John actually ended up committing suicide when the cyber attack came out in 2015 over this whole ordeal.

08:48

So there were three couples that they interviewed  and each  is a different experience that’s discussed. So we’re going to focus on Sam and Naya. So just to fast forward real quick, Sam and Naya are actually still together. They did separate, but  in episode three, you find out they are still together. They went to counseling and they ended up working things out.

09:13

The sad part about their relationship is not only did Sam sign up for the website, he also had some  infidelity outside of the relationship. m from what I gather, excuse me, Naya was saying is he was very flirty with even some of her friends.  The situation, it seems like it varies. So all his sexual infidelities, like Kira said, took place outside.

09:41

of Ashley Madison. seems like Ashley Madison was just more an emotional connection,  not um anything sexual took place there. Again, we like to keep it respectful because I can see definitely both perspectives. I can understand Sam’s perspective.  I can understand Naya’s perspective. I can understand Sam having a little itch.  He’s not happy in relationship. When you watch the episode, you will hear him talk about boredom.

10:11

He’s bored a lot. And that’s typically what ends up happening in your relationship. That’s spontaneity, that spark, that adventurous  excitement, all the stuff you do within the first year or two starts to fade, starts to die down. And that’s the hard part is how do you still maintain your focus when that spark is not there anymore?  When things are not all roses and peaches anymore? How do you

10:39

And you’ll hear him say that continuously in the episode. It started to get boring for him in a nutshell. So respectfully for me, I cheated because  not necessarily because I was bored because my partner wasn’t paying attention to me or focused on me. Sam cheated because Sam was bored. Because if you watch Naya,  Naya was actually a very front and center wife.

11:07

she did her best  to really be there from what we saw and what she gave. She really gave her best to try to be there emotionally, physically, spiritually, because  she states that she’s a Christian.  So emotionally, physically, spiritually for her husband. um And it’s not the fact that he wasn’t getting attention. It’s the fact that he wasn’t,

11:37

just died out. was tired. He was tired of the monotony of everything. I think so too, but yeah,  it’s interesting. Like, you know, with me, when it comes to em infidelity, everyone has a different story.  I wasn’t getting enough attention. Sam on the show talks about how bored he got.  If you ask Khalif, Khalif was like, he wanted to try different things. That’s three different responses from people.

12:05

of three different reasons why you’re picking infidelity. Now,  of course, this is a romantic relationship we’re talking about here, you know, so it’s always different from a platonic relationship. But why is it as adults when we intentionally know we’re doing something wrong that we shouldn’t be doing, we always go down that path. You know, and I look at Sam and he seems so genuine. There are times when he started crying. I was like, Oh, here we go.

12:34

Here we go because I’m be honest with you Naya kept it together Listen, tears do not faze me. She did. She kept it together the whole show. What’s she crying for now? Not one tear shed out that girl’s eyes. Yo that situation you could tell made her a lot stronger because even her demeanor at the end of it like at the end of the episode when they join them together

12:58

You can see she’s a lot harder than she was when she was because also what I forgot to mention, they’re also YouTube stars. A little side note about them is when Frozen first came out, they actually did a little car Frozen audio with their family and people reached out to them and they became YouTube stars. You can definitely find Sam and Naya on YouTube.

13:25

I think they have to be on, I know for a fact they have over a million followers. So  not only  did this affect them, but they’re also a little mini YouTube, you know, famous. So you could definitely either watch them on Netflix or watch them on YouTube, but she wasn’t fazed. You could definitely tell the difference in her emotion at the end when they’re joined together.

13:54

She seems stronger. seems stronger, stronger, harder. Yeah, she looks like she’s no nonsense. Now they do have three children, their oldest daughter. When I went to go look at them on YouTube, she I think she’s about 14. Based on the year she was born, because they got married in 2004. So I think she got pregnant, not too long, I think it was 2004. They got married. And she got to

14:23

pregnant not too long after. So what is your thought about Sam and Naya? Or let’s say Sam.  That’s a lot to unpack, Sherley. It is a lot to unpack. Honestly,  what my thoughts were,  I was devastated for her  because I know what it feels like to be on the other side of that. So I could recognize and empathize with what she was feeling. For Sam, I felt like he made

14:52

a lot of excuses. I feel like he gaslit her a lot. He had an opportunity to be completely honest with her when he sat her down to tell her about the Ashley Madison stuff. That was his opportunity to lay everything out in the open. Then he went on YouTube to make a video saying that he never met up with anyone, et cetera, et cetera.  All full well and knowing that he had had more than one physical encounter  with women.

15:22

had emotional affairs on Ashley Madison and came on to her friends to the point where one of her friends removed herself from Naya’s life. That was heartbreaking for me too. um And I just felt like there,  you know, I’m gonna bring it all the way back to the word too, because there’s a scripture that talks about um like basically how stupid do you think you are that you can get away?

15:51

with adultery and that it’ll basically ruin your life for the rest of your days.  And  I had to look it up to see what the verse was because  literally do you see how broken up he was even 10 years later? You could tell just from his, talking about it, the crying, all of that, like there’s still a lot of shame I think that he carries from it. And it made me think of like, was all of it worth it?

16:20

for you to…

16:23

create like all this  discord and devastation in your family,  for your wife, for your children, for your friends, her friends, because you  were so selfish, because you were bored.  It’s like,  yeah,  it was triggering a little bit, I’m not gonna lie. um But I feel like he was seeking validation in so many ways that again, I always say this to you that like you can’t.

16:52

get all of that from your partner. Your partner is not there to validate you in every single way. And the only way that I feel I believe that full fulfillment comes is a relationship with God. So all that stuff he was searching for, even when he was out there getting it, he still wasn’t satisfied. He was sleeping around. He was coming on to her friends and he was having emotional affairs and he still wasn’t satisfied. He still wasn’t satisfied. He still was very lost. It’s the lies after the lies. That’s what

17:22

I was very flat watching it. I don’t know if it’s my dark side, Kira, but I didn’t really feel sorry for either of them at all. Did you feel, did it feel triggering at all for you? You were just like, didn’t feel sure. No, didn’t feel triggering at all because now to the point of where I am, when it comes to adultery, it’s not going to stop. It’s going to continue. Um, what I realize either you’re going to find out or you’re not going to find out. There are times in

17:51

my own personal relationship I like to use as an example is every time Kaleef came to tell me something, there was a part of me was like, I don’t want to know, but he couldn’t keep it to himself anymore because he was hurting me and he had to share it with me  where with me,  he never realized kind of anything was wrong. think there was a moment he said he suspected something, but  he

18:21

didn’t think I would do such a thing.  with me,  never suspected anything when I told him he was very much surprised and shocked. But infidelity, what I will say, it’s a mean spirited animal.  I’m not set up for that life because there’s too  much  on the back end that has to be done with hiding your cell phone, hiding information, hiding text messages.

18:49

remembering certain conversations, uh just being so deceitful. I’m not set up for that. Yeah.  100%. Yeah. That’s what it is.  I’m not set up for that life. I tried it  and it’s not for me. I can actually tell you it’s something I do not want to go back to. I don’t care to go back to. I don’t understand how people become such  repeat,  repeat offenders.

19:17

When I’m talking about repeat, I’m talking about you on case four, you know, I could see one, two, even three. I, and some people might like, God damn three, Sherley. Yeah, I could see three  because you, you know, I could see repeat offenders, but when you on case four, it’s kind of like, when do you reach a breaking point to say enough is enough. And at this point, maybe you should, you know, explore polyamory or an open relationship.

19:42

Because monogamy is not  for you. Yeah. And it’s not for everybody. And I think something that I did like is that they  highlighted that other couple. um What was important in their relationship was consent.  Absolutely. That they both decided that they were going to have an open relationship. That’s not for me, but I’m not judging anyone  who does that  because what’s important is that they both decided.

20:10

that they were gonna do it together. The problem with cheating is that you’re doing it behind someone’s back. There’s no agreement  of being open or not and it violates the trust. It breaks down  so much  of the trust in the marriage. It’s like the ultimate betrayal. So how do you recover from that? And then it’s like, how do you recover from that? And then the person continues to do it to you over and over, up to four times.

20:40

Yeah. Yeah.  It is true. How do you recover from that? Now on the upside, we’re talking about Sam and Naya as Kara said, we do have,  um,  Stephanie who is married to  Rob. I think his name was, and let me see if I can come up with the clip on there so you could see Stephanie and Rob as Kara said, Stephanie and Rob are in a open relationship.

21:09

I’m going to say it’s open.  I don’t think they said open on Netflix, but I’m going to say, they did. They said, they said open marriage. Okay.  So they’re in an open marriage.  They are very much aware of what each other’s doing, but even in that there’s rules because Rob did tell us that he must let Stephanie know where he’s going, where he’s going to be if he’s coming back home and whatnot and vice versa for her. And Stephanie does have a right.

21:39

to say yes or no.  Um, you know, or I want you to, and I, and I think when  they say yes or no, it’s more like, no, honey, I want you to stay in tonight or  not tonight or something like that.  But they both have accounts with Ashley Madison and they both reach out to people and they are very much aware. I didn’t catch how long they have been married, but they’ve been married for a little bit. I’m going to say at least over five years, I’m going to say these two have been married. So let me see if I can find a,

22:09

lip  of  Stephanie talking so you guys can hear her.

22:17

So that’s a quick clip of Stephanie talking as you can see on here. Stephanie in the past, she admits that she has been a repeated cheater and she would cheat on all her partners. So this was an opportunity for her to have a relationship with somebody and still be able to go out and play  as most people say, have her cake and go out and get some cupcakes on the side.

22:46

So,  or I don’t think it’s that I think it’s have my cake and eat it too. But in this part, I’m going to say she has her cake, but she’s going to go get some cupcakes every now and then. And same with hubby. And you know,  it’s the same word she used as you see in the beginning is you don’t want to feel like you’re living with a roommate,  which it’s going to feel like that. And I think it’s when I was going to counseling, I remember our counselor telling us that

23:15

It’s the prince and princess fairy tale that’s created in our minds when we’re little.  And that’s one of the issues that we’re running into. can honestly say as a mother, two kids who are 16, 17, about to be 17 and 18.  We don’t sit down, educated, like discussions with our teenagers. have conversations here and there, but there’s no real  schooling. What they’re doing is they’re watching mom and dad.

23:46

they’re watching the outside world. They are seeing what they’re visually possibly seeing on social media or in movies. And  that’s how they’re learning to create their relationships for the possible future, especially from what they’re seeing, how mom and dad is cultivating their relationship. You don’t, you don’t really, you don’t talk about this stuff. Like you go to school every day, you wake up,

24:15

You go and you talk about math, you talk about science, you talk about history, you have gym class. Relationship is not a class. It’s not discussed.  Do I feel it should be? I feel in some way, or form,  should it be incorporated maybe  at the start of like seventh grade? You know, what’s that middle school? I think that’s middle school. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to incorporate it in a class  at appropriate age discussions.

24:44

you know, but we don’t do that. So as I’ve said before, every new relationship that you start, you’re learning about that person, that person’s learning about you. You’re learning what you like about that person, that person’s learning what they don’t like about you. What gets me to  sidebar about Ashley Madison  is that this is actually a business.

25:13

Darren woke up one day and said, I’m going to intentionally create a website for infidelity.  And to me, it’s like, how many Ashley Madison’s are out there? Cause that’s the thing I didn’t look into. You know, everything’s always duplicated. Is there another Ashley Madison out there website that you can join?  There could be, I have no idea. But the interesting factor also about this situation is

25:42

This is the reason why relationships,  when we  post on social media all the fluffiness, all the greatness that’s going on, I have a hard time with those things. I don’t hate it. I love to see happiness in my friends’ lives, in people I don’t know. I love it for them. But I also feel it’s  sending false information to the world.

26:11

Because even if you work together and even if you guys are together every day, there are moments that you need your own space. You need your own time. There are days that you’re going to be bored with your partner. There are going to be times where you need that separation and partner’s not going to be able to fulfill it.  You may go a week just in a sad space. You have to take the time to figure out what’s wrong.

26:38

You can’t be upset with your partner. And in that moment, you retaliate by providing someone else your attention or your time, because you don’t want to have a conversation with your partner because maybe you don’t like the fact that they haven’t been taking out the trash for the last two weeks.  So you know what? Let me go give Bob at work some attention because  obviously this dumb person over here can’t even take the trash out.

27:07

and look at all these great things that Bob’s telling me he’s doing with his wife. You know, and that’s how the distraction starts.  I will,  I do want to say though, I think that you bringing up how kind of like how culture is today and how it’s not very common for parents to sit down with their kids and just really talk about relationships and expectations. But my upbringing was very different.

27:36

I felt like I was talked to death about relationships because  it was preached about em sexual purity, about not having sex before marriage.  And I was,  you know, I grew up in church, I was really involved in church and we would hear sermons that the pastor is preaching to the entire congregation. And a lot of times he’s talking about relationships or marriages or, you know, different things like that. And then

28:04

When I was dating, my mom consistently talked to me about relationships  and to set my expectations and to know  what I would accept and what I would not accept. And I think I carried that through my  dating years.  And there were things that I just wouldn’t tolerate. But once I got married and some of that stuff started coming up, it wasn’t like I, it wasn’t just like I could just have a clean break.

28:34

like I did in other relationships,  right? Because I was married, it was different. There was a different like covenant there.  And so it really challenged me to,  I guess,  think about everything that I learned and that I knew about relationships and what,  you know, God says marriage is, but also understanding like, is my partner a safe person that I can be with? That’s not gonna keep breaking my heart, right? um

29:06

So I think even when you have two different perspectives, like, like  you’ve had a different perspective, I’ve had a different perspective and we both had different situations that involved infidelity, right? It’s like, none of that other stuff matters because we’re still in this, we still ended up in this situation. You’re right. And you bring up a good point is it’s very different. I do believe when you’re dating as opposed to when you become

29:35

into a committed covenant, such as marriage  or, you know, right for Khalif and I, you know, our situation’s different because we are not  legally married, but we do consider our relationship a bond for us, regardless what the outside world views it at. So  I do agree with you because when you are dating, it is different  of your do’s and don’ts and your boundaries and

30:04

You know, you can walk away from what doesn’t serve you, but when you do get into that committed relationship and you are with your person, I’m not going to say you can’t walk away because we all have choices in life, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a different, um, what’s the word I’m looking for? I don’t even know if, you know, fatality, not fatality, fuel T F E A U L T Y.

30:33

We’re to look up that word together because I think that’s the word I might use for that. I don’t even know if I’m pronouncing it right. Well, we’re going to have a little educational moment here. I feel like there’s a different responsibility. I don’t know what, I really don’t know what word you’re trying to use. I had this word. It’s F E A L T Y. Yeah. It’s like, um, what’s the definition. So it’s really like the loyalty that

31:00

citizens own to their country. So what I’m really trying to say is like the loyalty you would owe to your relationship. It’s feel. That’s the word I was trying to use. Let me tell you, I have to expand my vocabulary some way, somehow here. Listen, I’m here for it. That’s the word I was trying to So that’s why I say when you bring up such a good point, when you say, when you are married, that’s a whole different setup. Now you got to look at, you know, um, and I agree.

31:29

Now for you, we already know all young ladies don’t grow up like here. I didn’t have that experience. Nothing was ever discussed in our home about relationship.  All I knew is you don’t need no boyfriend and you shouldn’t be having sex. Those are the only two things that were ever said. Nothing else. Now, of course, with my daughter, that looks differently because why? I’m not trying to build generational curse.

31:58

And I want to do better than what was done for me. So she’s comfortable coming to talk to me about anything and everything. And that makes me so happy.  Now, of course, hubby on the other hand, his education is different. Our son is more comfortable going to him than he is to me, but I will force the conversations. And he looks at me, you could tell like, Oh, here goes this lady again.  But you know, I try to get for some stuff out of them, but

32:27

How do you think you’re going to be with your son since you brought that up? You going to do what your mom did with you? think, I think it’s really open. Yeah. I think  at some point when he’s old enough to know, I think that it’s important that we share with him what happened in our marriage. I think that it’s a lesson  for anyone. And I think, you know, me and Adrienne talk about that a lot that we hope that our marriage would be an example to other people. So they know that.

32:56

You know, one, that healing is possible,  reconciliation is possible,  but also teaching my son, like,  how to be  a man of God, how to be a good human being, how to treat people, you know?  And maybe he won’t make the same mistakes  that we made um because he is gonna have a different upbringing and his father is going to be teaching him how to be a man. um

33:25

But I really, I mean, my son is about to be seven, so I still got some years, but I think we, our style,  our style is definitely more open  and communicative with him and  asking him about his feelings and  letting him voice how he feels too. um And just hoping that there will be like open lines of communication so that he will feel comfortable coming to us about certain things. And if not us, that there will be someone in

33:53

you know, another adult that he’ll feel comfortable,  you know, talking to. um Um, that’s my hope. That’s my prayer, you know,  you will see,  will see, you will see every stage brings an interesting part from  seven to now when he, you know, it’s going through puberty. If he’s interested in a girl, every stage is going to be quite interesting, but you’ll see, you will see.

34:23

Um, yeah. Yeah. But, one big scandal, as I mentioned that happened during Ashley Madison was the 2015 on July 13th of 2015, there was a cyber hack that cyber hack that happened. everyone’s information was basically leaked. Everyone’s information was basically leaked. I will tell you, they never found out.

34:52

who  the person or people, persons were that did this.  Neil ended up stepping down for  one reason, one reason only, not because of the cyber hack.  Neil, who was the CEO of the company who would advertise and talk. And I’m going to bring that scene up of him sitting there with his wife. Neil actually ended up having several affairs.

35:21

behind his wife, even though as he’s sitting here on this episode talking about he would never do such a thing.  And his wife even commented on how devastated she would have been if she had found out  her husband had did anything behind her back. So let me bring that  one little scene up where the wife comes on the show and they’re talking.

35:50

And to be clear, the information that was leaked from Ashley Madison not only contained their names and email addresses, but also contained their sexual desires and kinks and fetishes and all kind of very personal things like that. was everything. And this is where we’re going to go also talk about the last couple who, now I will tell you, I was touched by her, Christy.

36:20

And John,  she touched me. I do believe she was more transparent than like Sam. There was a part where she literally said, and I know I’m going off track, but she said, and that’s where I connected with her. She said, I wanted to go searching. I wanted to go look. But then I said to myself, I said, Christie, you know, you’re not going to do nothing.

36:47

She wasn’t going to So why you gonna waste your time? That right there is where I connected with her because that’s real. Because that is how it be. That is how it be. I think with Sam, I just felt like, oh, here he go lying again. But Christy, connected out of everyone on the show, I connected with Christy the most. And I did feel sorry for her for losing her husband. It’s heartbreaking. Because I feel like Christy would worked it out.

37:16

Christie would have made it work and they would have figured it out. But John just was shamed about it because he was, uh, what was he? He was in the church. What was he? Was he a bishop?

37:28

He was, think a pastor, but he also, I don’t know if they were attached to a school, a school, like a university where he was teaching and that, they told him he had to step down. That’s what ended up happening. That’s what set him over the edge. Yeah. Here she go right here. All right guys, we gonna get ready to listen to this. So he convinced the wife to use her as a photo, a picture of her for the billboard, which

37:59

What I don’t understand is…

38:03

How can you,  if,  if I was told by my partner that you’re going to be working for a website where you’re promoting infidelity,  absolute no,  absolute no. That is a boundary I have to set because we’ve already been through our own situation and our relationship. And this is why I always say there’s always  light at the end,  at the end of the tunnel.

38:32

I do look at  our situation as a blessing and I know it’s hard for people to understand. How do you see a blessing from a man cheating on you? Because  number one, I’ve seen the other side and I’ve also been on the other side,  but it’s also opened up our eyes in different ways. know, Kaleef and I just did an episode the other day and we did like a 10 question type of thing to

38:58

you know, help partners build better connections with them. So we asked each other 10 anonymous questions that we didn’t know. And one thing he did say that he, if he could change  is his infidelity. He realized that he was at a terrible time in his life. And  now looking back, he realized how awful of a mistake it was to do that. So that’s why in our forties now, the fact that we can even sit next to each other,

39:29

talk about our downfalls  and still be able to cultivate a healthy relationship with our children. And also  like most people for us, infidelity, remember we have a reminder of it. You know what I’m saying?  Most people, you could just write it off and you don’t ever have to see that person again, but we have a consistent reminder of the decision that was made and the path that we walked together.

39:59

But  for someone like his wife to sit here, go on the view and promote it like this is okay, this is healthy. For me, I feel like that’s many red flags,  many red flags.  You play with fire and you’re gonna get burned. What kind of example? Absolutely not. we would have…

40:25

sweetheart, we would have to find something else. If I need to pick up more hours, that’s what’s going to happen because I cannot see you doing this, especially where we have come from. And it doesn’t matter where you’ve come from,  even if you’ve never experienced infidelity in your relationship at all, but this is not it because there’s just too much temptation in the world. We are humans. And when you allow yourself to be part of this temptation,

40:52

Even the simple terms, you know how we tell our kids, watch the company you keep even as adults, we have to watch our company and keep,  know there’s girls out there that physically look better than me.  And at the end of the day, visually, you might like what you see, remove yourself from that situation. So you’re not tempted.

41:13

Mm-hmm.  I think that we are going to have a natural curiosity because in relationships, in marriages, in long-term relationships, commitments, things ebb and flow. There are peaks and valleys. There are seasons when  you may not be having a lot of sex. There are seasons when everybody might be sick. There are seasons when you’re just so busy. There’s a lot of things happening where you kind of have to reset and refocus.

41:42

And sometimes someone gives you a compliment and you kind of feel, ooh, that was nice. There’s a natural curiosity that’s going to happen and there’s always going to be temptation. I think at the end of the day, what has to happen is that through those curiosities and through those temptations, we have to always choose our partners. We can’t  fall into those  thoughts and…

42:09

curiosities and temptations because they lead down a really, really dark path.  we have to choose our partners.  I wouldn’t surround myself with with things like this. I would surround myself with people who are like minded.  I even think that sometimes it can be difficult  as a married woman hanging out with like a lot of single girls, right? Because they’re out maybe searching or looking for things that I’m not.

42:39

while we’re really good friends, we don’t have the same interest all the time. And so there are some settings or situations that I just don’t need to be in. The same thing with my husband. Like there are some settings and situations that he just doesn’t need to be in. It’s like we’re trying to cultivate relationships with people who are married, with people who are following after God, with people who want their marriages to succeed,  with people who will hold us accountable, with people that we can vent to when we are feeling tempted or we are feeling

43:08

a little curious, that’s normal. But it’s like the decisions that you make and the people in the company that you keep is really important. even in therapy that was brought to our attention of try to focus with,  try to be around healthy couples. You know, not saying that, you know, if you see any toxic, should know, stay away. No, but try to maintain

43:33

friendships with people who are in relationships who even have some idea of what you’re going through  and like you just said not saying you can’t hang around your single friend, but It’s it’s a different dynamic even something of with us as being mothers  if you pay attention to us as mothers and then when we have single friends who do not have any children  even that is hard to build a relationship around so that’s

44:01

A good example too  is the company you keep makes a huge difference even  right now as we are adults, as we are adult. Right. So the last  couple that we’re going to focus on  is,  um, John and Christie,  John and Christie,  you meet them  in episode two and in episode three.

44:29

And the sad part about Christie  is that after this 2015 cyber attack, when all the information was leaked twice, I think when they first reached out, they had 30 days to shut the website down. They did not do that. So they leaked information. And then there was another bit of information that was leaked that  was more targeted towards the CEO. I think there was more information leaked and then they leaked

44:59

more information about the CEO and we’re talking about emails. I mean, these cyber hackers were good. And the fact that they were never found,  crazy,  crazy. They never wanted money. They never wanted anything. From watching the show, experts and professionals say that  this is somebody that must have had an account with Ashley Madison.

45:26

that was somehow significantly affected by this company. And on top of them being very tech savvy, because when they did have some top, top  tech people come out,  one of the persons saying, seems like the IP address was coming from somewhere local, you know? Yeah, inside the organization. It was an insider. Someone who worked for Ashley Madison. I’m not.

45:55

into all this cyber hacking on episode three you we you will hear from  um  his name was Joseph Cox Joseph Cox  is very tech savvy  in I think the cyber world I’m not exactly sure what Joseph does but Joseph was actually able to reach out to the people or persons who  started this attack

46:23

And basically what he did say is he spoke to them and they were called the impact team. And basically the underlying reason why they did this was because it was a moral reason. That’s why they did it. It was a moral reason. There were lies too, because when you signed up for the website originally, they said that it was trusted. Your information is protected. That was all a lie.

46:51

Your information was not protected. It was not trusted. They put the,  you know, like if you ever go on websites, you’ll see that this is trusted, especially when you go make payments. They just took the logo and they smacked it on there, but none of that information was true.

47:10

You know, ultimately what Joseph realizes the reason that the Cybers did this was a moral reason, even though to this day, actually Madison is still up and running. Um, probably a lot of back end things have changed. No is not the CEO anymore. There’s a new CEO. Now he had stepped down in 2015 after that whole incident, but now to get back on track with Christie and John.

47:40

As you can see, I like to jump like zigzags,  but, um, bringing it back, bringing it back. Christie and Christie was my favorite.  John had already passed away when she was interviewed for the show, but Christie was my favorite. Christie and John.  Let me go back to my notes here. They’re from New Orleans. Christie is a sweetheart. Even if you watch the show just for her,  I just,

48:10

I did connect with her and not in like this emotional mushy way, but I feel that even if John did not pass away, it was genuine for Christie and Christie would have forgave in that man and they would have moved on and things would have been fine. But it really affected John big time. Um, there in New Orleans, he is a professor. He was a professor at the New Orleans seminary. They were married for 24 years.

48:41

Mm-hmm  When they were married when they first started dating John was a big letter writer He’d write these like I guess poetry style great letters to Christy and that’s what she loved about her husband um And with their story how it started off is he went to work that day  They called him into the office the office told him that they found out

49:10

that his information was part of the  Ashley Madison cyber attack. They let him know that they had to let him go. And he accepted it. He was very sad about it. um He went home. He saw his wife. And he went into the garage, started the car,  and he died from carbon monoxide poisoning.  She didn’t realize it.

49:39

because she had actually went across the street to talk to one of the neighbors. And by the time she came back to the house, he was gone. And she was the one who found them.  But  it doesn’t say on the show how long it had been going on. And correct me if I’m wrong, Kira.  I’m not sure either if it was heterosexual or homosexual with John. I’m not quite sure with him.

50:09

because that was not specified.  But when you look at Kristi and John.

50:17

especially me who likes to watch criminal shows.

50:22

the true crime crime investigation discovery.  This is the tragic way of how infidelity can end. Although we don’t talk about it.  hear about it in true crime, but this is a tragedy behind doing something that is hurtful to your partner. Even though you’re not, it’s hard to say with Ashley Madison subscribers, it’s

50:51

unintentional. But truthfully, you never unintentionally want to hurt your partner. It’s really a  greed, a desire you’re trying to satisfy at that moment.

51:07

And at the time that Christy found him, she didn’t know.

51:12

like if it was confirmed that he was on the site.  So she  didn’t know anything until after he was found. And that’s when I think the school explained what happened that day before that morning and why he must have  done that to himself. Yeah. And that’s the sad part. Yeah. About this fidelity because this is the road that it can lead down off. This is the path that

51:41

it will take, um, that can happen to anybody  because this is very devastating news. You’re in a relationship with somebody. You want to know that you’re the only one that they’re paying attention to. You’re the one. You don’t want to believe that your partner  is having any type of emotional or sexual connection with someone.  It’s heartbreaking to even think about, let alone hear that it’s happening.

52:10

But this is the reason why that even through my podcast,  I  try to be a beacon of light education, talk about it because infidelity, I do believe it’s talked about in a harsh way. When you go on social media and you hear about somebody that’s cheating, of course you hear a lot of  the bullies in the comments. And I definitely see a lot of this from women.

52:39

When it comes to infidelity, men speak, but women are very harsh.  Well, she had  any self-respect. She would have been walked away or she would have left. She would have been this. It’s always what she should have done and she didn’t love herself and she didn’t care about herself. That’s why she stayed.  When the man cheats on the woman, when the  woman cheats on the man, you don’t necessarily hear these types of comments from the men at all. It’s.

53:08

different. It’s a different type of conversation that the men provide. Either they just walk away and say less, or they speak a lot out of anger and disrespect the woman. But they don’t talk about her self worth or her self respect, which women tend to say a lot. You know, women also tend to say, I would never,  I used to be one of those, I would never people until, until it happened to me and I, you, you immersed in that world and now you’re like, Oh,

53:39

Yeah, you know, you see the other side and you’re like, yeah, you can’t use that verbiage because when someone’s not in front of you, you don’t know what they’re doing. When you’re not with your partner, you don’t know what they’re doing. We need to stop crippling our minds to believe that this person that I’m sharing my life with is perfect. When that’s not true, this person that I’m sharing my life with will not do anything to harm me. That’s not true.

54:07

This person that I’m sharing my life with is never gonna get bored of me and is always going to, you know,  treat me like love every day. That’s not true. I can tell you easily once a week, I probably give him a dirty look.

54:24

once a week, easily, you ain’t do something, you know? And it’s just like, sometimes when I sit here and laugh and think about like some of this silly stuff, I’m like, yeah, that’s my person. That’s my person. That’s  my dysfunctional person.  You know? And likewise,  but Christie touched me the most because

54:53

It’s important to be present for your partner, to let them know that you love them, that you care about them.  Even on days that you just don’t want to be bothered, you still have to show love, whether it’s verbally, whether it could just be a simple hand touch when you come in the house and just, you know, just uh because touch is very important. That physical touch that you make somebody feels extremely important. Of course I know

55:22

Kira, I think you funny about touch and you don’t like touch.

55:27

I am, but you know what’s interesting? When we went through our program and our therapy, one of the things that we were required to do was hug for like 30 seconds every single day. And this is like after the infidelity came out. And I’m like, ew, I don’t even wanna look at him, let alone touch him. Are you telling me that I have to hug him for 30 seconds?

55:57

But at first it was just like, ugh.  And then it got easier and it got easier and it,  you know,  it took time, right?  But it was interesting because that like small gesture is building like the reconnection, right? So  physical touch is really important in marriages and relationships.  And they always told us like,

56:23

you know, greeting your partner when they come home is important. Like, I’m happy to see you. I’m glad you’re here. I missed you. You know, it’s something so small, it doesn’t take a lot of effort like to stop what you’re doing.  And we do that. And I think, like you’re saying, it’s the physical touch is an important part. It is the small, it doesn’t have to be hugged for 30 seconds. It could just be something that yeah, on the forehead or just a swift hand swipe. Hey, honey, I’m gonna go there’s the lay down.

56:52

You know,  you get to learn your partner over time, but it’s just those small gestures make a huge difference.  Now to comment on Sam  and many people that get bored with relationships  as two people who are sharing your life together, you have to be intentional together. That’s the best thing I can say. You have to be intentional together.

57:18

You have to find ways and different things to do either inside the home, outside the home that is still going to bring joy in both of your lives because yes, you will get bored.  There’s transparency here on this podcast. You will get bored. It will get corny. It will be like,

57:43

It’s just part of life.  I don’t know how else to say it.

57:51

I think that ah culture and society make it look like a fairy tale. And I think also with like the high rate of divorce, it shows that people are not willing to do the work.  And I saw a TikTok that was like, well, why does marriage take so much work? And it shouldn’t take that much work if you’re in love. I’m like, marriage is a partnership.  It’s  about love. It’s about commitment. And it’s about sacrifice.

58:19

So a lot of times you’re putting the needs of the other person above your own. That takes work. agree 100%. That takes work to consider someone else all of the time. 100%. That takes work. So being in a relationship is not necessarily easy, right? But when you make the decision to choose each other every single day,

58:46

That’s the beauty in the marriage, right? That’s the beauty in the relationship. That’s the beauty in the commitment to each other, the loyalty to each other, right? Because you know that you always have that person that you can depend on. when you think about it in life, Kira, everything takes work. You’re in school, work. Everything takes work. So why do you think this is not going be work? Work. Raising children. Working out. So where do you get this concept?

59:16

that the marriage is supposed to be smooth sailing and easy ride. To me a marriage is like, you ever went, uh white water rafting?

59:29

That’s, God, that’s I compare our situation. You have smooth sales, great days, then you have those rush past rough patches coming up. You don’t know what you’re going to do. Sometimes you see them ahead when you on that raft and you’re like, Oh my God, what do do?

59:51

Can I avoid it? I avoid it? go this way. Let’s go that way. But that’s how I like to compare our relationship because that’s what it is. It takes work. So for people to say that you shouldn’t, it shouldn’t take that much work or it should come naturally or you should do this. you know, in this day and age, social media doesn’t make it any better, you know, because you have all these visuals that you see the Tik Tok.

01:00:20

the TikTokers, the Instagrammers, the YouTubers that talk about their relationship  in such a perfect light that  you now run into  the terrible world of comparison.  Yeah. And also just to circle back again  on you talking about earlier, the company that you keep,  that’s not just about in person.

01:00:47

Right? There are things that you might have to shift as far as your intake on what you take in. In social media, in movies, in music. If you are someone who is easily tempted, then maybe you shouldn’t be following all the women’s pages or all the workout pages so you’re constantly being exposed to women who are half naked or things like that.  Or maybe you shouldn’t watch movies about women cheating on their husbands because it’s gonna start stirring up temptation in you. Do you know what I mean? It’s like,

01:01:17

There are things too that every person can handle and every person can’t handle. What  I intake  might be very different from what you intake, Sherley, right? Like there are things that I know I can’t watch because it’s gonna make me feel triggered. It’s either gonna bring me down emotionally because then I’m thinking about all the stuff that I’ve been through or  it’s gonna pique curiosity, which I don’t want, right?

01:01:43

or it’ll start fueling resentment, which I’ve healed from. So there are things that I know that I can’t take in and there has to be kind of safety in social media and scrolling about what you take in when you’re in a relationship. Everything is not for you. And if you can’t handle it, you shouldn’t intake it. That is also included in the company that you keep. Everything that you said is absolutely correct because there was a time

01:02:13

that anything that had to do with infidelity, I had to take out from my life because I was such in a weak point. I couldn’t deal with it. Something like Ashley Madison would have been a trigger for me. And what I mean by trigger for me,  my mind would have immediately went to, so  he might’ve signed up for a website. Now that’s something else I need to go check, you know, those types of things.  So you’re absolutely right. There are so many different triggers and to side note  on

01:02:43

the girls who are working out. Maybe that’s something you shouldn’t be because if you compare your body to her body for whatever negative reason that may be, just stop watching them.  So a hundred percent agree on that. So we are going to end this episode today.  We hope it was very educational. It was a bit different  than our norm because I had to share a screen, share a little clip it of videos. Of course I didn’t share the whole thing.

01:03:11

You guys can go on Netflix. I’m promoting for them and you can go watch Ashley Madison. It’s three episodes. I think it’s very educational. Eye-opening. Some of you obviously may have watched it, may have heard it or even knew about Ashley Madison because it’s been around since 2001. So it’s been around for a minute. It’s not new to the game, but I want to end the show to say relationships.

01:03:41

are not fairy tales.  When we used to watch  what, the prince and the frog? Was that it? Was that Tiana with the frog?

01:03:53

Yeah, that’s princess, you know, and then you got Cinderella. Then you got like all these little fairy tale shows. That’s not how relationships are. They’re not like there’s real shit going on over here.  Real  life situations. You’re not going to be upset  every day with your partner and you’re going to love them no matter what, but there’s going to be good days, bad weeks, bad month.

01:04:21

It’s  just  how it is. But as individuals, we need to be intentional. Let our partners still know that we love them. If we’re going through something, communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. If you’re having a bad week, if the month isn’t going right, let your partner know, talk about it with them. But I will tell you this, when it comes to infidelity, what I do realize is it takes both parties,  both parties to be intentional in their decisions.

01:04:51

and to be able to move forward  in building a better relationship because one person can’t want to do the work and the other person is not putting their best foot forward  but it takes time it takes time it takes time everybody okay it really takes time.  I think I need to we need to uh before I let you add your note I think you know sometimes when I do these things it makes me think I think we should definitely add something about

01:05:20

What happens when two parties do have to separate?

01:05:25

You know,  that is okay. That is okay. Yeah. Although I don’t promote, I don’t like separation and I don’t like divorce. I really do,  uh, aspire for people to work out and figure it out and make it work and move past that  and take that as a teaching moment. Sometimes it just, you know,  the party ends right here.  Yeah. And the takeaway and what I’ve learned, um, through therapy and marriage,  um,

01:05:54

healing after infidelity is that you have to realize if your partner is a safe person for you in all aspects, emotionally, physically, that they’re not going to keep hurting you over and over and over again. And even in abusive relationships, a lot of times it takes women, they say at least seven times to leave an abusive partner.  Not saying that infidelity is a form of abuse, it can be, but  if the person is not

01:06:23

willing to change, like you said earlier, not willing to do the work, they’re not a safe partner. And I think that that is a perfect reason to separate or discontinue the relationship. I agree. I A hundred percent. think infidelity is a form of abuse. I think it falls under emotional. I think it’s, it’s one of those convoluted conversations because we automatically categorize abuse as physical, but abuse can come in different forms. Yeah. Agreed. All right.

01:06:53

I guess ah my last point, and I think I said it earlier, I wrote it down so I could be clear,  is that marriage at its best is about two people choosing each other every day, even when things are hard. It’s not just about romance. It’s about deep commitment, trust, and putting the other person’s needs before your  own. A healthy marriage or a healthy relationship is gonna mirror that kind of love.

01:07:22

All right. That’s it. Everyone have a great day  until the next episode. We’ll talk to you guys soon.  Thanks for tuning in to Fun Polly podcast. If you want to continue the conversation or share your takeaways,  I want to hear from you.  Head on over to the website or join our Facebook community and comment your favorite part of the show  or share your thoughts.  I want to hear what you have to say.  Don’t forget to write and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode.

01:07:52

chat with you next week.

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Are you interested in getting your opinion out about a particular topic but don’t know how to do so?  If so, here is an opportunity to do so to share your point of view, PLUS get your message and voice out there.  It is always a great way to know about different perspectives and enrich ourselves through knowledge sharing.

Be a Guest

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Submit your relationship advice/question

Sherley’s Show provides an atmosphere where every woman is comfortable growing into their best self. Sherley’s Show is a no judgment podcast where we discuss how to rise strong out of all types of obstacles that come with relationships. Through personal life experiences and discussions ranging from infidelity, trust, forgiveness, sex, heartbreak, self love, therapy and more, we offer words of empowerment as you strive to build and maintain all of the relationships in your life. You may be going through something that is unique and difficult. Sharing your story gives others comfort and could also be helping someone else. Let them know they are not alone. Everyone has a story, do not let fear hold you back.

Listener Stories, Advice & Questions

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